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Xian
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1-3-2012
 « Re: (RTW DC2R)« » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by RTW DC2R »
Interesting read regarding pressures. Based on this info I am probably still running too much pressure in my 71Rs. My hot pressures were 35-36 after my last session at my last event so gonna go lower next time out.

http://www.windingroad.com/art...sures/

Skimming that article, seems to me like you're in the right range for a street tire on a DC. Or are you running a really light EF?


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10-20-2002
 « Re: (Xian)« » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by Xian »

Skimming that article, seems to me like you're in the right range for a street tire on a DC. Or are you running a really light EF?

DC2R. After looking at their little chart and looking at my tires it looks like I can still come down a psi or two. We'll see how it plays out.

Was at the track yesterday and didnt have time to put my track wheels on so I went out on Azenis and stock wheels. They performed surprisingly well and are a little more forgiving than the 71Rs. I actually kind of liked how the Azenis felt but it was my first time on that track and I would have loved to do back to back session comparison. Just didnt have the time.

Back to the tire size discussion, how much different do you think 225s would feel on a 15x7 wheel compared to running 205 Azenis on the stock 15x6 wheel?


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Xian
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1-3-2012
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Quote, originally posted by RTW DC2R »

DC2R. After looking at their little chart and looking at my tires it looks like I can still come down a psi or two. We'll see how it plays out.

Was at the track yesterday and didnt have time to put my track wheels on so I went out on Azenis and stock wheels. They performed surprisingly well and are a little more forgiving than the 71Rs. I actually kind of liked how the Azenis felt but it was my first time on that track and I would have loved to do back to back session comparison. Just didnt have the time.

Back to the tire size discussion, how much different do you think 225s would feel on a 15x7 wheel compared to running 205 Azenis on the stock 15x6 wheel?

I wouldn't use their numbers for much aside from a comparison of relative pressures... a Hoosier is substantially different from a street tire and how they behave at a given pressure. With their super stiff sidewall, you can run quite a bit less pressure and still have a happy tire. Another thing that I've heard is that back to back testing has shown that there's a decent middle ground of pressure where performance and grip doesn't change but wear and wear patterns does. Point being, going to the super low end of things may not improve performance but could negatively impact wear.

As to the 225 street tire on a 15x7, for the billionth time... I wouldn't do it. I don't like the feel of a loose butthole. If this was a Hoosier, I'd do it without a second thought.


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Rboosted717
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7-24-2011
 « Re: (Xian)« » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by Xian »

I wouldn't use their numbers for much aside from a comparison of relative pressures... a Hoosier is substantially different from a street tire and how they behave at a given pressure. With their super stiff sidewall, you can run quite a bit less pressure and still have a happy tire. Another thing that I've heard is that back to back testing has shown that there's a decent middle ground of pressure where performance and grip doesn't change but wear and wear patterns does. Point being, going to the super low end of things may not improve performance but could negatively impact wear.

As to the 225 street tire on a 15x7, for the billionth time... I wouldn't do it. I don't like the feel of a loose butthole. If this was a Hoosier, I'd do it without a second thought.

I agree with Christian about running 225's on a 15x7 wheel. While 225 tire will absorb heat better and potentially have a large operating window, it's not worth the mushy feeling you'll experience. A 205 on a 15x7 is much crisper, is easy to toss around and in my experience seems to promote a better driving line and technique. That being said, a 15x7.5 or 15x8 is a different matter, and especially if you're talking real tires "slicks".

Oh yeah and a 205 on a 15x8 is a different story as well. Possibly OK for very VERY short stints and average driving, but anything aggressive or longer in duration will be no bueno.

15x6 = 195 or 205 regular*, R comp* or slick*
15x6.5 = 205 regular, R comp or slick
15x7 = 205 regular, R comp or slick**
15x7.5 = 205-225 regular***, R comp*** or slick***
15x8 = 225 regular, R comp or slick
*expect slightly less feel and nimbleness with a 205 but will have a slightly larger operating window and more effective grip
**if using a slick, a 205 or 225 size is ok, however, 225 is preferred
***if using a regular or R comp either a 205 or 225 will work, although expect slightly less feel with a 225 but will have a slightly larger operating window. If using a slick, a 225 is preferred.


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Xian
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Quote, originally posted by Xian »

Sooooooo... bringing this back up. I drove the new Nexen Sunday at a Dixie event (grippy concrete site). I've gotta say that I'm impressed with the tire. My thoughts of their 255/40 17 compared to the 265/35 18 RE71R I've been running this season:

Turn in doesn't feel as sharp and the tire generally feels less "racey".
A fair bit more tire noise.
Seemed to take heat just fine... At least comparable to the RE71.
Appears to run wide. The 255 is wider than the 265 RE71R and equally as wide as the 275 Bridgestone (all on 9.5" wide wheels).
Initial wear appears good.

I'll go out on a limb and say ithat, for this size comparison, there's maybe a couple tenths between the two. I ran the Nexen for 3 runs in the am and the Bridgestone for 3 runs in the pm. I didn't get a chance to do a "real" ire test where I went back and bracketed my afternoon runs with the Nexen. As a result, I don't know if my afternoon runs were faster because I figured out one section was faster than I thought, the track rubbered in, or the Nexens are genuinely off the pace of the Bridgestone. The timed difference between the 2 was almost exactly 1 second on a 52-53 second course BUT that entire second was made up in the last 1/3rd of the course where, when I compared data and video, I simply drove a better line and then carried more speed through a big sweeper and fast offsets section. Before that point the 2 times were on top of each other. My fast time on the Bridgestones was good enough for 2nd in Pro (0.25 out of 1st) and 4th in PAX (0.4 out of 1st) and sandwiched in with the faster guys.

I'll keep running these for a bit locally and see how they do but, so far, in pretty impressed by the product. Given that they've got a 225/45 15 out now that appears to be a solid 1" wider than the RE71R, these may be worth checking out.

Video of the 2 runs:

https://youtu.be/uSNJf14UGoE

Circling back with a more thorough review... made some minor setup tweaks from the last event (above) and took 0.7-0.8* of camber out of the rear as well as ~0.2* out of the front (adjustments based on tire wear/rollover as well as balance).

The result was getting the car back into the sweet spot handling-wise where it was "too loose" on the first run. A couple clicks softer in low-speed compression coupled with a 3# tire pressure drop fixed things up. With the setup changes, the new tires are really damn good. The initial softer turn-in and noise appears to have gone away. This could be setup or it could be getting a heat cycle into the tires as well as wearing down some of the "ghost tread". Wear and heat tolerance still appears very good. The tire is good at multi-tasking, braking, and puts down power well... turn-in is still a little softer than the 71R but it doesn't slow you down.

My co-driver and I ended up 1 & 2 in Pro, overall PAX, and overall Raw time and were still figuring out how much farther the tire could be pushed on each run. My $0.02 at this point is that tire is pretty damn close to the Rival-S and RE71R. Given the 225 sizing, I wouldn't hesitate to give them a try if you're looking for track rubber. I don't know how well they'll do pinched but I'd say they're closer to the 71R than the Rival-S when it comes to sidewall construction. Only sucky thing is that their 225/45 15 isn't particularly cheap so you're not going to save a ton of cash running these unless it's due to better wear.

PS
We were seeing just shy of 1.2g peak steady state lateral and up to 1.5g combined lateral and longitudinal (older, asphalt runway). I'd expect concrete #'s to be a little higher.


Christian
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RTW DC2R
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10-20-2002
 « Re: (Xian)« » Reply  Edit


I can probably google this but figure Ill ask here since were talking about tires.

For directional tires like the 71R, can I run them backwards assuming a dry track? Noticed today the outside of my left side tires are wearing more than the right and Id like to try to even them out. Probably due to clockwise tracks and mostly right hand turns. I dont see why not unless its raining.


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coolhandluke
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12-12-2005
 « Re: (RTW DC2R)« » Reply  Edit


Negative, a directional tire will wear irregularly when run backwards. You could extend the life by having the tires swapped from side to side but there is a cost there unless you have a tire shop hookup.
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10-20-2002
 « Re: (coolhandluke)« » Reply  Edit


Good to know
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Xian
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1-3-2012
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Sooooo... take this with a grain of salt because it's not apples to apples. I know some folks will run tires "backwards" for autox to even out the wear patterns. The statement about rain is 100% spot on but I haven't heard of irregular wear being an issue (though intellectually it makes sense that the tread blocks wouldn't respond to loads in the same way if they were leading with the "tip" vs. a broader surface). It may be a case that the duration of use for autox (3-6 runs) is enough to balance wear without accelerating it when the tire is run backwards? I dunno... personally, by the time they got worn enough that I would be considering something like this, they were worn enough that I'd flip them on the wheel (and pay $80 for dismount/mount service).
Christian
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10-20-2002
 « Re: (Xian)« » Reply  Edit


Thanks for the extra info. I might just try it anyway and see how it feels and/or looks after a session on track. The main track I have run this year is extremely hard on left side tires (NJMP Thunderbolt). The only left hand turn on this track is slow without much load on the tires so it makes sense the wear I am seeing. The outside section adjacent to the sidewall is almost worn through the tread blocks. The ride side isnt even close to that bad. Pocono this week which isnt as hard on the left side so I can probably leave them alone. But might swap before next NJMP event. If nothing else I will flip the tires.

Would more air pressure help save the outer edge of the tire to help keep the tire from rolling over so much towards the sidewall?

We usually run the outside loop(without the turn 2 and 3 inner sections)


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Xian
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Quote, originally posted by Xian »

Only sucky thing is that their 225/45 15 isn't particularly cheap so you're not going to save a ton of cash running these unless it's due to better wear.

Additional Nexen update... they just dropped their pricing. The 225 is $110 now and my 255 17 is $120. Holy fuhqballs that's cheap.

Quote, originally posted by RTW DC2R »
Thanks for the extra info. I might just try it anyway and see how it feels and/or looks after a session on track. The main track I have run this year is extremely hard on left side tires (NJMP Thunderbolt). The only left hand turn on this track is slow without much load on the tires so it makes sense the wear I am seeing. The outside section adjacent to the sidewall is almost worn through the tread blocks. The ride side isnt even close to that bad. Pocono this week which isnt as hard on the left side so I can probably leave them alone. But might swap before next NJMP event. If nothing else I will flip the tires.

Would more air pressure help save the outer edge of the tire to help keep the tire from rolling over so much towards the sidewall?

More pressure won't hurt but it still may not be enough to fix the shoulder wear. If you do try them flipped (either on the car or on the wheel), expect it to take a little bit for the tread peaks to wear down from being leaned on the opposite direction.


Christian
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coolhandluke
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12-12-2005
 « Re: (Xian)« » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by Xian »

Additional Nexen update... they just dropped their pricing. The 225 is $110 now and my 255 17 is $120. Holy fuhqballs that's cheap.

What! I might order a set then...

Edit: RS3v2's are only $108/tire. Tempted to order a set but I do not "need."


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Xian
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 « Re: (coolhandluke)« » Reply  Edit


I also took the time to measure their tread depth... appears that the center ribs are 3/32nds deeper than the shoulders. Should mean that this tire is gonna get pretty fast toward the end of it's life if it doesn't cycle out first.

Christian
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coolhandluke
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12-12-2005
 « Re: (Xian)« » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by Xian »
I also took the time to measure their tread depth... appears that the center ribs are 3/32nds deeper than the shoulders. Should mean that this tire is gonna get pretty fast toward the end of it's life if it doesn't cycle out first.

I will update my first post this evening to add this tire.


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Dystopia
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3-19-2015
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Finally going to pull the trigger on some new tires for my stock R but a little undecided. Had my mind set on a set of Azenis RT615K's in 205-50-15 but tire rack has Sport Comp-2's in OE size with a $50 mail in rebate. Seems to me saving the $100 buts makes a little more sense, especially for a stock caR. Any thoughts? Not ruling out an eventual track session.

*EDIT * Just noticed tire rack has the oval indy 500's on close out for $51/each.... Reviews seem solid and price is unreal.


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10-20-2002
 « Re: (Dystopia)« » Reply  Edit


I have the sport comp 2 on my 16's, and 615s on my stock wheels. Its been a while but I remember liking the sport comps more than the 615s. I havent driven on the sport comps in a while though, just rocking the azenis or my track wheels on the street lol.
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12-12-2005
 « Re: (Dystopia)« » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by Dystopia »
Finally going to pull the trigger on some new tires for my stock R but a little undecided. Had my mind set on a set of Azenis RT615K's in 205-50-15 but tire rack has Sport Comp-2's in OE size with a $50 mail in rebate. Seems to me saving the $100 buts makes a little more sense, especially for a stock caR. Any thoughts? Not ruling out an eventual track session.

*EDIT * Just noticed tire rack has the oval indy 500's on close out for $51/each.... Reviews seem solid and price is unreal.

Heads up, both the BFG G-Force Sport Comp 2's & Firestone Indy 500 are in a different tire category, Ultra High Performance Summer. I would compare the two to each other, but not to tires in this thread. If you don't plan to track I wouldn't bother spending coin on tires in the Extreme Performance Summer category. If you pursue tires in the Extreme Performance Summer category check out the reviews here. Many like Xian have posted excellent reviews and feedback. The 615k's would be towards the bottom of the list- they are old technology these days.


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Dystopia
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3-19-2015
 « Re: (coolhandluke)« » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by coolhandluke »

Heads up, both the BFG G-Force Sport Comp 2's & Firestone Indy 500 are in a different tire category, Ultra High Performance Summer. I would compare the two to each other, but not to tires in this thread. If you don't plan to track I wouldn't bother spending coin on tires in the Extreme Performance Summer category. If you pursue tires in the Extreme Performance Summer category check out the reviews here. Many like Xian have posted excellent reviews and feedback. The 615k's would be towards the bottom of the list- they are old technology these days.

Gotcha --- I figured you guys would help me out with advice even though the 2 candidates aren't in the title category. I would still like to eventually get some track time in since I am about 45mins from NJMP. I will read back through some of the pages and hopefully make my mind up! Thanks again.


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coolhandluke
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12-12-2005
 « Re: (Dystopia)« » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by Dystopia »

Gotcha --- I figured you guys would help me out with advice even though the 2 candidates aren't in the title category. I would still like to eventually get some track time in since I am about 45mins from NJMP. I will read back through some of the pages and hopefully make my mind up! Thanks again.

Forgive my tone, I get on a soap box when comparing tires from different categories. I'm happy to help.

You can track on both tire categories, but the EPS will offer max dry grip. Are you on stock wheels or aftermarket? If aftermarket, what size?


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Dystopia
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3-19-2015
 « Re: (coolhandluke)« » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by coolhandluke »

Forgive my tone, I get on a soap box when comparing tires from different categories. I'm happy to help.

You can track on both tire categories, but the EPS will offer max dry grip. Are you on stock wheels or aftermarket? If aftermarket, what size?

No worries dude! I'm on stock wheels right now with no near term plans to upgrade to anything different. I think I should just stick with the Comp 2's but jumping up a category to something like the Re71r is really tempting.... and would probably give me more motivation to get out to some track events etc.


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