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Dystopia
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53 posts [100%]
Salem New Jersey
3-19-2015
  Suspension refresh for #1295« » Reply  Edit


Alright! Since #1295 is in winter hibernation mode and Santa brought me a Hardrace hardened rubber bushing kit for Christmas - now is the time to tear down the suspension and get heR freshened up. Fortunately - the family farm has a shop with most of the necessary tools and we recently got a 20 ton shop press to help this rebuild along.

I apologize in advance if this thread is too broad - please be patient with me!

My hope with this thread is to:

1 - Document the suspension work
2 - Specify my goals for the work being performed
3 - Capture the various P/N#'s and part manufacturers
4 - Solicit feedback from the community (part selection, tips and tricks etc)
5 - Try to make this a reference for others

She is currently sitting at 99K miles with, it appears to be, mostly original suspension. I noticed earlier in the year that the rear trailing arm bushings were toast and figured I would run into more "opportunities" as I started to inspect. So far I have found a tie rod end and lower ball-joint that needs replacing. Also found that the lower motor torque mounts have had the urethane window treatment..... Long story short - This looks like a full rebuild and I'm not ruling out new dampeners and springs.

My hope is to have a car that maintains a mostly original ride and handling quality. This isn't going to be a race car but certainly plan to start doing some track days in the future. Based on these goals, I would definitely love to hear any feedback from the community. If I find the dampeners are in poor shape - would you recommend a OE type replacement such as bilstein with the original springs? As for the torque mounts, any particular brand or should I just stick with hardrace or OE?

Also -- Any tips and tricks you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Examples: How would you pre-load the suspension while using a lift during re-assembly? What bushings/assembly points should be carefully torqued?

Hopefully this will get things going! Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

Few pics to spice this thread up:



Modified by Dystopia at 3:05 AM 1/3/2017


01 - ITR #1295 PY - Stock 98K
01 - Integra GS-R - Stock 94K
05 Saabaru Aero 9-2X - The DD
"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known". -- Carl Sagan


Jnice
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120 posts [100%]
2-10-2016
 « Re: Suspension refresh for #1295 (Dystopia)« » Reply  Edit


Does that hardrace kit come with all bushings needed?

Dystopia
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53 posts [100%]
Salem New Jersey
3-19-2015
 « Re: Suspension refresh for #1295 (Jnice)« » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by Jnice »
Does that hardrace kit come with all bushings needed?

Not everything --- Doesn't include sway bar end links, torque mounts (motor mounts), or the sway bar bushings among other things.


01 - ITR #1295 PY - Stock 98K
01 - Integra GS-R - Stock 94K
05 Saabaru Aero 9-2X - The DD
"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known". -- Carl Sagan

Jnice
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120 posts [100%]
2-10-2016
 « Re: Suspension refresh for #1295 (Dystopia)« » Reply  Edit


Ok got ya..looking forward to see your progress I'll have to do the same soon with my suspension

coolhandluke
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13077 posts [100%]
HI
12-12-2005
 « Re: Suspension refresh for #1295 (Jnice)« » Reply  Edit


Koni Yellows are an excellent alternative to Bilsteins. Koni Yellows are arguably more popular and more versatile. Should you change your mind down the road and move off of OEM springs the Koni's can "grow" with you so to speak. The Bilsteins are another good OEM-style choice. I have them on my 97 now.

HardRace - Make sure to measure the outer diameter of each bushing prior to pressing. My last set were way off (too large.) I had to sand the painter off the outer casing and freeze them just to get them to fit. Make sure to avoid the motor mounts. They didn't last 10k miles.


98-1040
98-0197 - Sold
01-0187 - Sold
97' #171

ITR Expo 16 Event Photo Thread


Dystopia
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53 posts [100%]
Salem New Jersey
3-19-2015
 « Re: Suspension refresh for #1295 (coolhandluke)« » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by coolhandluke »
Koni Yellows are an excellent alternative to Bilsteins. Koni Yellows are arguably more popular and more versatile. Should you change your mind down the road and move off of OEM springs the Koni's can "grow" with you so to speak. The Bilsteins are another good OEM-style choice. I have them on my 97 now.

HardRace - Make sure to measure the outer diameter of each bushing prior to pressing. My last set were way off (too large.) I had to sand the painter off the outer casing and freeze them just to get them to fit. Make sure to avoid the motor mounts. They didn't last 10k miles.

Thanks for the input --- That sucks to hear about the hardrace stuff. Hopefully i don't regret the decision.


01 - ITR #1295 PY - Stock 98K
01 - Integra GS-R - Stock 94K
05 Saabaru Aero 9-2X - The DD
"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known". -- Carl Sagan

coolhandluke
Break on...



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13077 posts [100%]
HI
12-12-2005
 « Re: Suspension refresh for #1295 (Dystopia)« » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by Dystopia »

Thanks for the input --- That sucks to hear about the hardrace stuff. Hopefully i don't regret the decision.

Take it piece by piece. Some of their pieces last, others don't. Still some pieces aren't worth swapping, like the rear compensator arms. You will bend the arms pressing out/in new bushings. For some pieces it is better (ie cheaper or easier) just to procure OEM replacement arms with the bushings already in them. Ex: Rear LCA's.


98-1040
98-0197 - Sold
01-0187 - Sold
97' #171

ITR Expo 16 Event Photo Thread


RTW DC2R
Bump drafting j00



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2311 posts [100%]
NYC
10-20-2002
 « Re: Suspension refresh for #1295 (coolhandluke)« » Reply  Edit


Good stuff Jared

My R needs the same work done, hoping to get to it before Spring but we'll see. I am also unsure what route I want to go because I dont necessarily trust Hardrace enough to do my entire bushing configuration with them.

Regarding Hardrace stuffs...there is so much info out there from them being great to being total crap. Google search is pretty enlightening. They are used by companies like Megan Racing and Tru Hart which are basically the same thing. I actually have the Tru Hart front and rear UCAs and so far so good. Your mileage may vary so just be aware.


98-0034 - Track Daze y0
00-XXXX - The OG NOPI Fish Tank Type R - SOLD

My For Sale thread ITR and Misc Parts For Sale


aw614
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404 posts [100%]
Lutz FL
8-18-2012
 « Re: Suspension refresh for #1295 (RTW DC2R)« » Reply  Edit


Still very happy with my ots valving bilsteins and stock springs. I didn't want to deal with adjustment knobs and a few other factors were my reason over the konis

Talking to Dave-ROR this past weekend at a local autox event, he mentioned that he had hardrace bushings tear on him. I forgot if he had them on his integra chump car or when he had them on his gsr or previous ITR.


Dystopia
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53 posts [100%]
Salem New Jersey
3-19-2015
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I'd really hate to do all of this work and have the bushings fail prematurely. Not to question anyone's attention to detail, but is it possible proper torque specs weren't applied? Maybe the suspension didn't properly "settle" before attending a track day? Just some thoughts -- definitely not trying to insult anyone but I am genuinely just trying to learn before jumping in.
01 - ITR #1295 PY - Stock 98K
01 - Integra GS-R - Stock 94K
05 Saabaru Aero 9-2X - The DD
"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known". -- Carl Sagan

Sort of Fast
Helmet. Gloves. Attack.



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68 posts [100%]
WICHITA KS
11-23-2013
 « Re: Suspension refresh for #1295 (aw614)« » Reply  Edit


This is why I refreshed mine right from the get go. There is a lot of appeal to keeping things stock, but from a performance perspective it makes no sense to use parts that are 20 years old. Hardrace is a good option, but I opted for energy suspension. A lot of mixed reviews, but I've never had any tear out or wear prematurely on my GSR Civic when it was a track car and they've been installed for 4 years now...so the same type of bushings were used on my ITR. The torque mounts (if you're referring to the engine mounts) I would highly suggest Hasport as the bushing inserts tend to last a long time and there are various stiffness ratings to choose from. They're also rigid enough to make the additional engine mounts (transmission mount and mount where the AC is) removable as they are simply excess weight on the car at that point. These cars came with a lot of excess cast iron parts, so removing those can make a substantial impact on the overall weight.

Koni yellows are a good option assuming you know what rates you have in mind and what tires you'll use if you track it. You can generally overcome too soft of a spring by just making the sway bars bigger or vise versa start with a stiffer spring and go smaller sway bars...etc. The stock springs/sway were matched to a specific tire, but nowadays your typical summer tire has a lot more grip. Slightly stiffer spring rates are generally a good idea. Lastly, if you go with a full coilover like PIC Select, Tein Flex, Skunk2...etc, you'll have the option of corner balancing the car by adjusting the ride height. This will make a pretty big impact on the handling and overall balance of the car.

---This is just a start though. There are literally so many ways to setup a car with street use in mind and yet still make it very competitive in a track/autocross environment. Just depends what your overall goal is with the car.


92 GSR Civic - Daily
97 ITR - Track Car/Weekend car
93 J32 Civic SI - Time Attack!

The USDM ITR fanboy - Despises all modifications to the car even if it's far better looking and/or outperforms OEM quality.
-Will go on about re-sale value even though no one else cares.
-Brags about how it's the greatest FF car ever made while never driving or tracking said car.
-Lives in denial that any 90s Honda can be built just as fast, if not way faster, for less money.
-Does not understand that it's the concept/idea of the ITR that's cool which can be easily applied to any Honda/Acura chassis if you put in the work.
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dave7
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274 posts [100%]
Los Angeles CA
3-24-2016
 « « » Reply  Edit


For the suspension, the jdm oem is great imo. Pretty easy to buy them used for around $200, and it's a little lower/stiffer than usdm.
#01-1322

coolhandluke
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13077 posts [100%]
HI
12-12-2005
 « Re: Suspension refresh for #1295 (RTW DC2R)« » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by RTW DC2R »
Good stuff Jared

My R needs the same work done, hoping to get to it before Spring but we'll see. I am also unsure what route I want to go because I dont necessarily trust Hardrace enough to do my entire bushing configuration with them.

Regarding Hardrace stuffs...there is so much info out there from them being great to being total crap. Google search is pretty enlightening. They are used by companies like Megan Racing and Tru Hart which are basically the same thing. I actually have the Tru Hart front and rear UCAs and so far so good. Your mileage may vary so just be aware.

Here are two threads addressing this topic:
-Bushing Kits
-OEM Genuine Honda ITR full bushing replacement list


98-1040
98-0197 - Sold
01-0187 - Sold
97' #171

ITR Expo 16 Event Photo Thread


Dystopia
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53 posts [100%]
Salem New Jersey
3-19-2015
 « Re: Suspension refresh for #1295 (coolhandluke)« » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by coolhandluke »

Here are two threads addressing this topic:
-Bushing Kits
-OEM Genuine Honda ITR full bushing replacement list

Thanks for those links -- good reads. I feel like I might have made a mistake with the whole HR kit. Seems like Kingpin front LCA's and OEM rears would be ideal and save some time. Might go ahead and install the HR RTA's and compliance bushings and see how it goes... Then just hold on to the rest of the kit for spares or try and sell em cheap.


01 - ITR #1295 PY - Stock 98K
01 - Integra GS-R - Stock 94K
05 Saabaru Aero 9-2X - The DD
"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known". -- Carl Sagan

coolhandluke
Break on...



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13077 posts [100%]
HI
12-12-2005
 « Re: Suspension refresh for #1295 (Dystopia)« » Reply  Edit


Rock the HR front lower compliance for now until you start tracking. The RTA's, rent the tool from Automotive Specialty Tool (Expo sponsor) and that will greatly help. Just make sure to measure the HR RTA bushings first. Their quality may have improved, but I would definitely double-check. Make sure to pay close attention to clocking the RTA's.
98-1040
98-0197 - Sold
01-0187 - Sold
97' #171

ITR Expo 16 Event Photo Thread


Dystopia
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53 posts [100%]
Salem New Jersey
3-19-2015
 « Re: Suspension refresh for #1295 (coolhandluke)« » Reply  Edit


Quick update --- Got snowed in a bit and dove into tearing things apart. Also started to drive in the drivers side LCA bushings but might have made a rookie mistake. I thought i had a good socket but the beveled edge of the socket kinda waffled the new bushing outer shell. Think I should press it back out and use a new one or is this purely cosmetic? It pressed in nearly the entire way but didn't want to go any farther until I did some research.

Also -- The UCA ball joint looks mushed (technical term). Guess that's on the list for replacement as well.

<br /><br />
Modified by Dystopia at 9:54 AM 1/7/2017

Modified by Dystopia at 11:42 AM 1/7/2017


01 - ITR #1295 PY - Stock 98K
01 - Integra GS-R - Stock 94K
05 Saabaru Aero 9-2X - The DD
"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known". -- Carl Sagan

coolhandluke
Break on...



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13077 posts [100%]
HI
12-12-2005
 « Re: Suspension refresh for #1295 (Dystopia)« » Reply  Edit


I think the LCA is good, it appears cosmetic. The UCA bushing/joint cannot be replaced in OEM form. The only option is to purchase a full replacement from Honda.
98-1040
98-0197 - Sold
01-0187 - Sold
97' #171

ITR Expo 16 Event Photo Thread


Dystopia
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53 posts [100%]
Salem New Jersey
3-19-2015
 « « » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by coolhandluke »
I think the LCA is good, it appears cosmetic. The UCA bushing/joint cannot be replaced in OEM form. The only option is to purchase a full replacement from Honda.

Really? We managed to press out the UCA ball joint pretty easily along with pressing in the UCA bushings etc. I'm going to try and hunt down replacements for the upper ball joint - Is there a reason I couldn't press in a new one? I really don't want to spend the money on an entire camber kit or oem unit if I don't have to.

Made some good progress today. Tore down one of the knuckles and found the wheel bearing had some play in it. Pushed the bearing out/separted the hub etc. I'm going to clean up and repaint the knuckle/spindle, shock fork, and anything else needing some attention.

Had a small collection of old sockets that we were using to press in the new bushing for the LCA and UCA. We were finding that the bevel in the socket was causing some misalignment. Ended up throwing them on the lathe and taking some material off the end to flatten them out and around the entire diameter. This REALLY helped!

Success!




Modified by Dystopia at 2:10 PM 1/8/2017


01 - ITR #1295 PY - Stock 98K
01 - Integra GS-R - Stock 94K
05 Saabaru Aero 9-2X - The DD
"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known". -- Carl Sagan

RTW DC2R
Bump drafting j00



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2311 posts [100%]
NYC
10-20-2002
 « Re: (Dystopia)« » Reply  Edit


Nice work! One we are settled in the new home in south jersey Ill be swinging by for some bushing help lol
98-0034 - Track Daze y0
00-XXXX - The OG NOPI Fish Tank Type R - SOLD

My For Sale thread ITR and Misc Parts For Sale


coolhandluke
Break on...



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13077 posts [100%]
HI
12-12-2005
 « Re: (Dystopia)« » Reply  Edit


Quote, originally posted by Dystopia »

Really? We managed to press out the UCA ball joint pretty easily along with pressing in the UCA bushings etc. I'm going to try and hunt down replacements for the upper ball joint - Is there a reason I couldn't press in a new one? I really don't want to spend the money on an entire camber kit or oem unit if I don't have to...

You can try and aftermarket replacement. Honda does not sell a replacement front UCA balljoint, just the complete UCA.

Excellent work! I love the lathe action.


98-1040
98-0197 - Sold
01-0187 - Sold
97' #171

ITR Expo 16 Event Photo Thread

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